I think it’s about time bands and musicians should hop off the bandwagon and start being honest. I know it’s not every band and every musician but I think it’s not fair for every other band out there. What I’m talking about is bands saying they are Christian to get signed and to get known. This has happened already a lot, I’m not going to name any bands or musicians specifically but they know whom they are. It’s not fair for everyone else who is trying to make a living as a band and just having fun with it, being legit.
I managed to have a conversation with Tyler Smith AKA Telle (Formally in Greeley Estates and In Fear And Faith, now in The Word Alive) about this very matter. This is an exact quote of what he said:
“TWA and Greeley Estates are both non-Christian bands, however, I’m Christian and there are a couple guys in GE who are Christians as well. TWA and GE both have non-Christians in the band, and not everything we write about is about God. We try to have fun and enjoy music.
We believe that you can write music to have fun, and not to stand for something so much bigger than that.
We don’t like titles, or bands who just hop on that bandwagon hoping to get bigger. It’s not fair. It’s not right. We try to be the best people and band we can, and to me that should be enough.”
What do you guys think?
| 09/03/2010 04:52 am | News
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I’ll agree with that. I don’t feel like everyone is called to a ministry position like Sleeping Giant or For Today, but if you are going to go with the whole claim as a Christian band, do it for the right reasons, not the publicity. Obviously, we can’t make someone do that, but I hope eventually, the bands that are doing it for the wrong reasons will feel convicted sooner or later. I mean, personally, I see no problem with a band doing it for fun. God gives us all talents and gifts, use them for how you feel like He’s calling you to. I mean, look at Thrice. Obviously they’re not a Christian band like you’d call the forementioned bands, but I definitely can tell that’s where God has called them. Doesn’t make them any less of a band. It’s just my opinion that when you’re going out and saying you’re a Christian band, you’re fronting the big man Himself, and there’s a possibility you’re putting someone’s salvation on the line. You never know when that kid who has never had a good experience with Christianity will either be turned towards Him because of your message or that resentment will be solidified because you just wanted the credibility.
Exactly. Dead on David.
I think we assume there are lots of bands saying they’re Christians to get signed, but I believe the number is much smaller than people think. Honestly, what would a band gain by doing that? You might slightly increase your chances to sign, but there’s only a handful of labels to sign to. There’s a much better chance with the myriad of mainstream companies out there. And whether or not it would actually increase your chances is not clear.
Other than that I do agree with you that bands should just be honest and clear. But, I think most of them are. I actually believe you’re more likely to see the opposite situation. Look at how many bands have been forced into addressing the Christian issue because people make assumptions that they are Christians based on lyrics or whatever. Most of the time they’ll say they have no idea where that rumor came from or admit that some portion of the band are Christians, but they aren’t a Christian band. That’s pretty honest to me. Very few bands I have ever dealt with try to avoid the issue altogether. Most, whether Christians or not, are quite open about it.
Yeah I agree with you and I think we do assume there are lots of bands saying they are Christians to get signed. Maybe that’s short sided on our part. When a musician states the very same concern we talk about though, you have to think that there are people that do that. Maybe it’s not as many as we think but they are still out there. Honesty is key above all else and your right – if a band is asked if they are a Christian band or not they do respond honestly. I don’t think I’ve seen someone change the subject or just avoid that all together, they do always respond.
So pretty much I just repeated what you just said… lol. I added one part I think.
What would a band gain? Quite a big following. I mean, I’m not knocking Facedown, but if you get signed by them, you’ve instantly gained thousands of fans, whether you’re good or not. I mean, there’s plenty of people who flock to a band because of label, image, message (pro-Christianity or not), and bands see that. And it’s not even just signing, but the fan base. Look at the whole auto-tune music scene. There’s a lot of people that eat that kind of music up, and it sells. There’s plenty of bands who want a piece of that. So with the Christian scene, I think it’s a lot of people like listening to music they don’t have to worry about the message, so they like to latch onto anything that’s the Christian version of the bands they used to like. I honestly don’t feel like Stephen was making this to be like there’s thousands of bands, but there are quite a few; enough to realize the situation. I can’t speak for him, though, but I do agree with you Josh in the sense that it does seem like there’s more bands that are lumped into being a Christian band just because they mention faith in their lyrics or the members. I remember when I first started listening to metal and hardcore, I thought SO many bands were Christian bands, like He is Legend, the Agony Scene, From Autumn to Ashes, old Beneath the Sky (Lord, forgive me), All that Remains, Killswitch Engage, etc; just because they all had positive messages, for the most part. So I’m sure there are still plenty of people like that out there.
That wasn’t me attacking you, Josh. Just trying to answer your question. But like Josh said, I’ve been doing music for a few years (not a lot, but still) and even in the local scene, it’s there. There’s a local band that, while I’m not in the place to judge, no one takes them seriously as a Christian band; all they do is smoke pot and cuss on stage. People all want a piece of that Jesus pie, and honestly, I feel like the pie has been eaten for a while now, so they’re just getting crumbs. Horrible analogy. haha. But still.
I have a comment stuck in spam, but I was trying to say I was just answering your question, Josh. Not attacking you by any means.
I definately can see both sides of the story. I look at a band like Zao for instance and see that they are stuck in that quandry and Scott came out and was clear about Dan and Jeff Gretz being christians but himself and the other guy whose name escapes me at the moment were not. Schyler Croom of He is legend in the newest issue of Hm magazine basically said that he didn’t understand that just because they were with Solid State why people assumed that they were a christian band when in fact they weren’t even christians. Obviously there is misconception that every band that the t&n ss factory signs is a christian band. One look at the past and you see that even in the earlier days that they had Craigs Brother and Frodus who were not christian bands and didn’t market themselves as such. In fact in the past it was quite the opposite with the we are just christians in a band stuff that mxpx became lightning rods for. Even now most bands are somewhat vague and use metaphors and allegory. The For Today’s and Sleeping Giants of this world are still in the minority.
I’ts actually quite encouraging to see a somewhat small but significant revival traking place in the industry, mostly coming out of the Nashville scene. Come & Live are a small label but when they launch their site and get things moving, it’s going to affect a lot of people. I notice a lot more bands lately going back to the worship oriented lyrical output.
The thing with T&N/SS is, the Christian market distribution makes people assume all of their artists are “christian,” when I believe the only stipulations Brandon Ebel has ever put on his bands in regards to faith is that there be at least one professing Christian in the band, and no profanity/sexuality in the lyrics.
As far as bands claiming to be Christian in order to get signed…while it is true that there are a lot more opportunities and labels in the mainstream market, it is generally easier to get signed in the Christian market. Despite huge improvements in the past however many years, the standards for musical quality in the Christian scene are often lower…many Christians are more concerned with JPM’s (Jesus Per Minute) or the appearance of faith than with whether or not a band is actually GOOD.
Those bands with genuine talent (or mainstream appeal) will often “graduate” from a (mainstream-owned) Christian label to a Major…but how many of them actually get anywhere outside of the Christian market? Mae lasted one album on a major, and now they’re back to doing the indie thing. Anberlin is a big deal in Christian circles, but haven’t made the splash they expected since signing to Universal. Bands like August Burns Red are well known and respected in their scene…but the mainstream and Christian metal/hardcore/whatever scenes tend to blur and blend more than other styles, largely because the market for the style is relatively small compared to what you hear on radio.
Having said all that, I am absolutely against musicians (or anyone, for that matter) using Christ as a marketing gimmick. But the fact is, until the average Christian consumer begins prizing (even demanding) musical excellence rather than settling for any mediocre band just because they know how to talk the talk, we can expect this trend to continue.
No worries David. I don’t take comments as attacks. Even if they were, I am all for debate so I wouldn’t be bothered anyways, haha.
There’s no real way to verify the argument that claiming Christianity adds popularity and sales. Signing to Facedown, or any label, gains exposure, but it doesn’t instantly gain you fans and it certainly is not going to gain you big CD sales. In fact, most Facedown bands (and other similar sized labels) don’t sell lots of records. Bands that sell big numbers (aside from CCM artists) are doing so because of the mainstream sales.
I used to know people who would purchase albums because a certain Christian label released them (not from a collector’s standpoint) but I personally do not know anyone who does that any more. I know those people exist but I think the numbers are smaller than they used to be. I think in recent years people have expanded what they listen to because of things like the abundance of bands and music available (through legal and illegal forms), social networking sites like Myspace, and magazines and zines covering various scenes. No longer is information on new and existing bands hard to acquire like back when labels actually did mail-order catalogs. I think the few who buy things just because their Christian, whether it’s good or not, is shrinking. Sadly, most younger Christians I know don’t listen to much Christian music, if any at all.
I think the Zao thing was inevitable because they’ve changed over the years in their focus. The He Is Legend & The Agony Scene situations I place some blame on the label as well. Most people know that T&N is affiliated with the Christian music scene and that, though they don’t require all members to be Christian, usually the vocalist is. If that is their stance, then the label should opt not to sign a band that doesn’t want to be associated with Christianity in any way.
“But the fact is, until the average Christian consumer begins prizing (even demanding) musical excellence rather than settling for any mediocre band just because they know how to talk the talk, we can expect this trend to continue.”
QFT.
I don’t think Mae & Anberlin are good examples because they are two bands that were quickly accepted by mainstream music culture (magazines, zines, etc.) and that fueled the success they achieved. Lyrically, neither of them are very “Christian” focused, so the “Christian” appeal really isn’t there. Mae signing to a major was a mistake IMO and they are doing just fine as an independent. Anberlin is doing well and have, for the first time, seen radio success with their first single and now the second is moving it’s way up the charts as well, to go along with decent sales figures.
I think we make a mistake when we label bands on any Tooth & Nail,Solid State, Facedown, Brave New World, Blood & Ink, and other labels like these, solely in the Christian market. Plenty of sales come from non-Christians, and probably the majority of sales in some bands cases. For example, I know lots of non-Christian hardcore kids who are big fans of Facedown bands. When I used to promote shows I saw the same thing.
Supply is driven by demand. A luked audience generates luked artists. The market is all about the cash flow… if we didn’t buy CDs that talked more about girls and despair you’d find a whole lot less of them in the market.
The Christian scene is dead. It used to be about communinty and such. It’s just too big. It used to be about sharing hope. It’s too generic. It started to die when we let 15 year old kids preach from stage, then get blown by some chick that night. Let it die. It’s over
Counting_saturn – I’m not sure that I’d go that far. But I would agree that the Chrisitian market isn’t what it used to be. In some ways it’s better. In some ways it’s worse. With the expansion of the market the average integrity level goes down. But there are still bands out there that are striaght up for God. You just have to look a little bit harder for them.
@David, I had a similar experience in my local scene.
My old band used to play shows with another christian band in the area. we weren’t shy about our faith, we would mention it on stage at every show. One day my friends band was waiting for a show to start, and they were talking to another christian band in the area about how they could raise tour support from their local church. There was another band present for this conversation… this band was definitely not christian. Immediately after that conversation, actually… DURING that conversation the singer started to say that they were a christian band. From that day forward they added “Christian” to their genre list on myspace. I had played shows with them and seen them live multiple times, and nothing about their live show or how they interacted with people would be perceived as christian. Shortly after that conversation I mentioned, we played a show with them and our band went on right before them. I told the crowd that we’re a band that makes music for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and just the general things I would say about our mission on stage. They went on after us and the singer said sort of the same thing. As soon as he was finished saying that, he introduced the next song and asked the crowd “At the count of three everyone shout what the F*%#!”
They went on for months calling themselves a christian band. It was massively disturbing.
Right now christian metal/metalcore is king of the scene… most of the heavy bands today that kids love are christian, so people try to exploit it.
GE got signed to Tragic Hero Records. Their newest layout is kinda disturbing.
Why do you say it’s disturbing? The cigars and stuff?
Greeley Estates was never on a Christian label, a point Ryan addresses in the interview video on this site (search GE to find it, Jess’s Interview), so why is Tragic Hero different?
I don’t think they’ve changed at all, and I don’t think they exploit their faith since they don’t label themselves by it. They still have some positive messages and nothing concerning, at least to me. What do you think? Heard their new album?
I’ve seen similar things happen, Nater. I went to a show at a church recently, where a local “Christian” hardcore band was playing. They went up and said that they all loved Jesus Christ. After the show, I was standing outside with some friends. The band’s vocalist and his girlfriend came up and started talking to us. Within a few minutes, he was bragging about having sex with his girlfriend. He said it right there in front of both friends and strangers, and you could tell his girlfriend was really embarrassed. I’ve also been to shows where more well-known “Christian” bands were playing, where people heard them cussing and stuff. Honestly, I don’t expect much from people in Christian bands anymore. I used to expect a bit more, and was letdown. Someone in a very well-known Christian band once told me that people would be floored if they found out how some of the well-respected, well-known Christian bands behaved. I guess it’s kinda hard to tell if those bands had good intentions in the first place, or if they just labeled themselves as “Christian” for whatever benefits it brings.